The Power of Brand Knowing with Molly Gould

Tom: hello and welcome to the Make Things Better podcast, today I'm joined by Molly Gould welcome on the show Molly how are you doing today?

Molly: Thank you um yeah I'm good thank you how are you?

Tom: Yeah I'm good thanks I'm good and we met through the Better Business Network

Molly: we did I am a big fan of the Better Business Network

Tom: how long have you been in it

Molly: I want to say it must be 18 months may be coming up for two years

Tom: really

Molly: quite a while yeah

Tom: yeah that is a while we've literally been in it a few weeks and I've already had like the opportunity to meet so many like cool people

Molly: yeah

Tom: I love it it's just great it's just like nice friendly normal people so yeah

Molly: you should send that to Hannah that can be the tag nice friendly normal people

Tom: she's literally going to going to snip that and that'll be in their marketing somewhere

Molly: yeah absolutely

Tom: they they smash their marketing I love it but yeah do you want to start off by introducing yourself a bit about what you do and how you got into it

Molly: yeah yeah absolutely, so I'm Molly um I run a business called Effable um it's a B-Corp and really supports businesses in their brand knowing, brand voice and their storytelling as well so helping them communicate their message in a way that feels authentic and rooted in their truth as a brand,

Tom: what is brand knowing?

Molly: oh so I'm actually really excited about this um so it's signature to effable um so brand knowing is where brand voice Brand Story and brand truth come together so it's a combination of the things that make up a brand so it is the purpose Mission the vision the values those foundations that really shape where a brand goes from there um the story so who is that character that hero of their story um I think Brands often think that they're the hero and they're the main character and it's not it's not necessarily about that it's about um thinking about outside the box there and then the brand voice is such a big part of that but those sort of three elements coming together through brand knowing it's a feeling that a brand gets to have and then the people working for the brand as well it's being sure of what stand for sure of how they communicate and sure about the words that they're going to use to do that um so it's quite new I think that's the first time I've said it out loud actually so this quite exciting

Tom: wow that is that is exciting yeah I haven't heard of it before but I noticed it on your website and it it peaked my curiosity so you said sometimes like a brand can maybe think they're the hero but sometimes it's a little bit different to that can you explain that a bit more

Molly: yeah absolutely so I think I mean we're all guilty of it aren't we humans are self-centred beings we are by nature and you know behind every brand is a human team making that come to life so it can be very easy to fall into the Trap of putting the brand at the centre of the story you know we do this we do that instead of focusing on the impact that it has so the thing or person at the centre of that story it could be their customer it could be nature you know there's lots of different avenues I guess to explore with that and it really helps Brands to communicate in a more effective way when they start thinking about the other entities outside of their their little sphere their little brand world

Tom: yeah so it's more about the impact that they're having on the world than just like who they are in a way

Molly: absolutely yeah yeah 100% which it's hard isn't it because it's easy to fall into that of like the dayto day we need to do this we need to launch that we need to talk about this and I don't know I mean I'm inspired by Nature a lot anyway and like I love absolutely nothing more than going to like the beach and staring out at the sea and realizing how tiny and insignificant we all are I think it's so freeing so when we're getting caught up in that like oh this needs doing that needs doing the bronze dance for this the bronze dance for that and it's like pausing and it's like okay who's this really about who's the at the center of this story

Tom: yeah  I love that because I think it is easy to get caught up in the day by day and sort of just thinking about the next task that you're working on but it is so important to think well what's the purpose behind this

Molly: yeah absolutely yeah

Tom: I found like some amazing moments when I'm just doesn't happen that often but sometimes I just look up at the starts and I'm like it doesn't you know it's not that deep you know

Molly: literally none of it really matters you know I think if we're all just doing the best that we can you know what all we like little ants aren't we on this like spinning little planet and like the things that we worry and stress about like as long as we're being good Building a career in branding people and doing our best and translating that into what we're putting out into the world as well that's that's all we can do isn't it

Tom: yeah absolutely so how did you get into branding

Molly: um by accident by total accident so I was really really really lucky that my first proper full-time job was in radio so I I failed all my a levels which was a shock I thought I was going to pass them all and I failed them all this is obviously a long time ago now it's quite some time ago um and I thought my life was over like I was like oh my gosh what am I going to do like that's it oh my and doing you're like oh how silly I was how silly and naive and I saw that there was a btech in radio production and I was like okay I like radio that sounds cool so I went and did that instead and part of it was the days spent at the local radio station and from the first moment I just fell in love with it I was like oh my gosh how cool would this be as a job um and I remember um one of the it was a breakfast show presenter at the time actually uh Perry Perry Spiller he said to me he was like make yourself indispensable and that is the best piece of advice anyone has ever given me because I was like I am going to make myself so useful around here that they have to employ me and they did um so I started out as an assistant radio producer then started working in different teams in the promotions team uh went out to Florida to produce a show there that we did which was really really cool um and then it was working in the promotions team like people started asking me to write promotional scripts and I'd always loved writing like my absolute dream would have been

to be a writer when I was little um so I started writing these scripts and I was like m i quite like this um and stayed there for six years then went to a media agency in Manchester then ended up at a PR agency in Stafford and it occurred to me that I could do all the creative things that I loved in radio but right and I was like oh my gosh people would pay me for this and yeah that's kind of how I fell into it really and that is that is some time ago now

Tom: wow so you start off make yourself indispensable

Molly: yeah

Tom: so that was about what like just trying to provide as much value to this company so that they didn't want to let you go

Molly: yeah absolutely and I remember so I'd agreed to be assistant um producer on the breakfast show which didn't didn't pay any money at the time but I was like you know what I'm in college it's fine um and I remember the producer saying to me can you edit this bit of audio and without thinking I was just like yeah absolutely I'd never done it in my life and I was like well it's time to learn how to edit audio and yeah it was just about being as useful as I could be and providing as much value and making people's lives easier um yeah and they did employ me

Tom: amazing and do you think that kind of helped you get onto the path towards being more creative because like you had a certain skill set and then eventually you fell into doing some more writing in radio and then you learned oh okay I I really love this or or maybe you just connected back to really loving it because it sounds like you've always had that sort of passion right

Molly: yeah absolutely and it was purely that I didn't I didn't realize and at the risk of sounding 100 because I'm not 100 but the world's very different now that I feel like young people probably know these creative jobs exist a little bit more but I didn't know that I could get paid to write things like I thought thought like oh if if I'm a a writer for a living I'll you know be writing novels and that's quite hard to get into so it never really occurred to me that that could be a job pass like at school they didn't really talk about like these creative avenues it was like oh was a bit arty that that won't work whereas I feel like now it's probably a bit more a bit more well-known

Tom: yeah yeah so how did that like opportunity to start writing come up

Molly: it was pure purely through it was part of my job that I had to write promotional scripts so I was I was writing them and then um I had a very brief stint in the sales team because I thought that was a good idea and they moved me blessed them they were like yeah of course you can do sales and they gave me like good clients like they gave me all towers as a client it was amazing and then I was like it was about a week in and I was like I literally hate this so I was working with some clients I remember going around to um they had like a car repair centre locally and I went around to her house like the client's house and we were sat in her kitchen and she was like can you know can you just write the script and I was like yeah I can write the script and it was just through like little bits like that of probably doing things I shouldn't have been doing I'm going to say is how I fall into and then made it so that it was the thing I should have been doing

Tom: oh I love that I think it's so interesting because it's like you just trying out like different things and then eventually you end up kind of stumbling upon something and you're like okay I like this you know know I want to do more of this

Molly: yeah

Tom: how did you like transition then so you were working in like a few other agencies as well and then eventually transitioned into going on your own how was that sort of that transition?

Molly: um the best thing I've ever done but also quite difficult so I was working at the pr agency and I thought I adore this I adore telling these stories but I don't necessarily like the clients that I'm doing it for like how cool would it be if I could do it for clients and brands that I actually like really deeply believe him um and feel connected to as well like I'm I'd say I'm quite a spiritual person I'm going to say like I believe a lot in energy and like how we connect with things so I was like if I felt energetically aligned with these clients this would be magic so I took a job closer to home um as a content manager and I sort of gave myself a year and then covid happened and I was like oh my gosh I can't can't leave a job now so it still out a little bit longer but then it just got to the point where like the desire to do it was too big and I was like it's not whenever amazing and I went jumped

Tom: yeah wow talked a bit about energy there and like writing I was reading some of

Improving at creative writing your things today like on LinkedIn and your website and it was cool because I've got to say this is even before I read something about energy in one of your posts but I was kind of feeling like wow like I can I didn't I was like you're sensing some crazy energy from the writing like that sounds weird and I've never really thought about writing in this way before but it was kind of like something was just being transferred into my mind like some kind of ideas through what you writing it was like really cool and I was like Wow The Power of Words is Big you know and you could really get that across like you

seem to have like some wave of words like how do you kind of connect I don't want to just stroke your ego too much

Molly: I'll come here again

Tom: but yeah honestly I do mean it when I say that like how do you kind of tap into that that writing flow like how how does that come about

Molly: well thank you first of all um I think it's different for everyone but for me writing is such a cathartic practice like even from a work sense like it brings me so much joy and I think the intention that you put into that really does shine through and I mean I do it for the writing I do for effable and I do it with clients as well that like I typically meditate before I start writing something you know I've got a salinite stick in my office and sage and like a cleanse the energy to make sure that what I'm creating and what I'm writing and what what I'm putting out there is charged with the correct energy to start with because say if I have been driving driving I've written my car off that was such a rubbish analogy as I'm carless at the moment but say I'm driving and someone's cut me up and like my energy is a little bit out of work and I'm like feeling like flustered if I then go into my office and sit down and immediately jump into a project that stagnant pent up you know there might be anger there might be frustration there's going to be things there that I don't want in that writing and the client definitely doesn't want in the writing because it comes through not only in the words that you use but in the tone of voice as well and I think I don't know I feel I feel like it's probably a bit more commonly talked about now but the the power of brand voice and like how you construct those words and how you put them together is arguably more important than the actual words and what you're saying because that intention and people can feel the energy like if I read something I know if somebody's been like really peed when they've written it or whether they've rushed it or whether they've written it out of feeling obliged to as well if someone's chucked them something and going here you go right this stick it up you can tell that there's not necessarily love any it to love and care um so it's a huge a huge thing for me and there's like I've got so many practices in my little tool box that I come back to to make sure that my energy is where it needs to be both for effable and for clients

Tom: wow that's quite mad because it's like instead instead of the the approach of just kind of thinking I've got to write this I'm going to try write it in this way or I'm going to do it this time or anything like that it's like you're starting off with right how am I feeling how's my energy right now and then you kind of have that open space to then go and be creative and it it's going to come out in your writing cuz you can tell like I had no idea that you meditated before or what was the other thing you said I've never even heard of whatever the other thing

Molly: so it's a crystal so it's a salinite stick so that typically like a white color um and you can get huge ones but like this this one's quite quite little um and yeah you can just sort of you can hold it and set an intention with it and it's it's a cleansing Crystal um and then Sage as well so like sageing the room um if anyone comes in it's like um it's like being in like a smokey smokey room with all my incense going in the each people are like o fighting through the Mist to get through to me

Tom: no way no way I think we'd get on that today but that's so interesting I love it though because it's so interesting to like hear how it actually is for you like how are  those words coming out and like that is kind of what I was intrigued and curious to know is how do you get into that state and and yeah it sounds like this is definitely definitely working for you

Molly: yeah I mean it's it's taken me such a long time to get to this point where so I'm I'm a yoga teacher as well I don't currently teach but um I did a yoga teacher training and I'll probably do another one as well because how it's impacting my work has been incredible which is crazy because you don't really think the two are interlined um but it's had such a profound impact and also I  think when you're working for other people you subscribe to a certain way of working and I think working in agencies like I've you know radio was an agency you know in a in a certain kind of way um and then the agencies that followed

you kind of pick up their working practices and think like oh well this is how it's done or this is how it's always been done so to break that down and go actually this is how I work best these are the things that I believe in these are the creative practices that I want to use in order to tap into that it's been really it's been challenging because I felt silly along the way I mean I don't feel silly now like I very rarely feel silly um but yeah it's been really exciting and empowering to try that and I I really try and obviously um it depends which client I'm working with but it's getting more and more to a point now where it's like well this is the way I work client you you will work with me on this as well so that involves like meditations on calls to make sure that like everybody's in like a grounded State before we start talking about anything because if they're they've just been like their bosses had to go at him or you know they're stressing about something their attention and their energy isn't going to be on what we're discussing in so bringing that down having that like grounded energy before we start is so so important and it makes such a difference as well

Tom: yeah you would have used the word so I'm just going to have to steal it but um I was going to say it just sounds like so empowering that you're just kind of like setting the tone like you're setting your life up in the way that you want to set it up and then what you're going to do through that is attract the people who align with your values and like as you say

Molly: absolutely

Tom: yeah like you're a B-Corp and like you're you're just going to be attracting like people who want to do good things in the world I want to get that across in their branding so everything just sounds so aligned which I love

Molly: Yeah it feels it and as I say like it hasn't always been like that like you know it's it's I think it's an Ever-evolving Journey isn't it and you know there's still things that I want to do things want to change but yeah how it is at the minute I'm really happy with and yeah it feels very much in alignment with how I want to do things which is nice it's a nice feeling

Tom: I actually think like in the future and this is just me kind of hypothesizing but I reckon in like 10 20 years maybe even sooner actually a lot of companies and a lot of people in the workplace will be focusing on kind of tapping into the right energy and having more practices that result in Greater productivity because I think nowadays there's a lot of people who are not actually as productive as they possibly could be because maybe they're doing jobs which don't align with the values that much or they don't really enjoy it that much I'd like to think our company Hive everyone's very very ly because our purpose is essentially to make things better in the world you know it's pretty simple it's

Molly: definitely get on board with that

Tom: yeah I don't think anyone in our company would be like yeah I know want to make things better you know

Molly: I disagree

Tom: I just make things worse can we just like go destroy some stuff but um but yeah I think there's like a lot of people out there who probably aren't really enjoying not enjoying like loving their job as much and I think there is going to be like more of a shift and I don't know what do you think?

Molly: definitely and I think that's one of the great things about BCorp for for one I mean I will caveat that with you know BCorp lots of pros and cons obviously I went through the process I see the value any but you know we are aware that there are some challenges with the process um

Tom: how was the process by the way because I've heard it

Molly: yeah I've heard I was really cocky I was so Becoming B-Corp cocky I was like I'm one person one full-time person in the company I work with some Freelancers as well but at the minute I'm I'm the only like member of Staff it'll be easy like servy space business no like you know suppliers to consider for some companies it's I'm trying to use like a a nice a nice word for it but it's a faf it's a faf for some companies so I was like yeah I'll just do it myself if anyone if anyone is could take anything from this it would be if you're going through the B-Corp process get help seek assistance cuz it's OD and even things like I was answering like the questions in the Bia at like 11:00 at night because obviously it's on top of your day job it's on top of everything else you're wearing enough hats anyway in a business and yeah like an incredible thing to have done and I'm very very proud that Effable is a B-Corp but definitely when I recertify in a few years I'll get um a be leader to help me because yeah it was it sounds some gray hair

Tom: yeah know it does sound really difficult  we've we've been trying to become B-Corp in the sense of looking into it and we kind of know what we need to do but it's just like going and like finding all the information

Molly: that's the thing it's like honestly like the evidence that you have to gather oh yeah it's not for the faint-hearted but absolutely worth it like hands down worth it

Tom: what are like the benefits to Effable

Molly: um I think I think the main thing for me is that logo that b if you know what it is you know what it is and it like it's really hard to say and I have this with clients as well it's really hard to say we're a business that cares we're a business that does the right thing because actions speak so much louder than words in that sense and it's like if you have to tell people it's such you know and it's like if people are like I'm a really nice person it's like if you have to say it

Tom: questionable yeah

Molly: so I think having that it's like a stamp of approval that you know I went into um bird and blend in town earlier just to get some tea and like there a B-Corp and it's like that little like I know what you stand for I know you're a good egg I mean I know I know there's some you know just because you're a B-Corp doesn't mean you do business while I will say that and I'm currently writing quite a long a long piece on that because I mean it's um so recording this in March so it's B-Corp month um throughout March and you know yes there's lots of Celebration and things going on but I think there is a very fine line maybe we should call it B washing instead of green washing

Tom: I like that

Molly: o remind me of that I'll forget I literally forget that in the next 3 seconds I'm like a goldfish um but yeah there's just you know other other things to consider but definitely an incredible thing to have done and yeah it's definitely that stamp of approval that people on planet before profit you know with it's like the unspoken sort of like a little sup nod between businesses I think um so yeah I'm a fan of it have

Tom: you have you learned anything about like the process or have you got any like tips for anyone

Molly: tips I think a lot of people will log in to so the Bia is free to do so if you're a business who is here to do good in the world and make it nice and not more rubbish I was going to swear won swear um it's absolutely worth doing like even if you've got no intention of becoming a B-Corp it's a really good framework to work through and see where you could improve and it's quite thought-provoking in ways as well like this the amount of questions you get depends on the size of your business the type of business so you know the questions I got would be very different from hive probably because of this the type of sector you work in but I think it's just a really good sort of gives you a good grounding on like okay where am I at as a business what could we improve on like what sort of things would help the world and help people um I mean I know there's lots of Frameworks out there you know you know there's ibms sdgs is flipping loads of them in there and it's like which one do I choose so I think you know if you're looking for something that'll give you an idea of what sort of business you are and like where you could improve and perhaps give you some food for thought for maybe the next three to five years of how you want to grow and how you want to do business and it's really great and that's free to access

Tom: yeah yeah makes sense do you find like you you tend to work with other B-Corps

Molly: um I absolutely do yeah however when I got the notification that Effable had certified as B-Corp I was like maybe we should only work with other B-Corps and then that was very quickly like debunked in my own head because it's an amazing Community it's so so amazing it's so supportive and I adore working with other B-Corps and that'll always be the case but if B-Corps only work with B-Corps that's a massive Echo chamber it's like you're preaching to the choir isn't it it's like yeah people on planet over profit and we're all singing from the same him sheet which is great but what about the difficult conversations that need to happen and like I absolutely love working with businesses where I get to question things and I'm like why' you do it like that what about this why is that team like that again getting involved in things I absolutely shouldn't be involved in why change the habit of a Lifetime

Tom: well what sort of response do you get when you like sort of question things like that

Molly: uh generally positive because one thing that I really don't do is can I use one swear word a light swearword

Tom: yeah go ahead

Molly: I don't work with people who are knobs absolutely won't do it it's such a drain on my energy that I I can't bear it so if anyone shows any signs of any point of being that way inclined then you know it it's not for me

Tom: what would you say is the importance of the importance of branding and storytelling for purpose-driven businesses branding and storytelling think in particular for purpose-driven

businesses

Molly: I think it's a thing that stands you apart from other people and I know you mentioned this briefly when we were chatting on um slack ahead of this that there's so many Brands out there who aren't doing the right thing sadly I mean we we'll sit here and we'll be like oh my gosh how could you operate like that but people do and brands do and they're taking up time they're taking up air time they’re taking up space they're taking you know market share so if we can have more of the Purpose Driven you know the heart lead you know the the businesses and brands that are really here to shift things to literally change the world they're here to shake things up we want them to be telling stories and we want them to be telling them well as well because that's the way that they're going to take people will always buy things you know you know certain services will always exist so if we can take that money and put it into the pockets and hands of people who are here to do good in the world that's absolutely what we want and storytelling is absolutely key to that because it's how we connect so we love stories don't we and you know like if you see someone you haven't seen in a while and like oh my gosh you'll never guess what happening you're like leaning in you know we're emotional beings we like to connect in that way so brands are really no different if you've got something that's really dry with no emotion eating you can't really find a common ground with it you're never going to be invested and we want people to be invested in the brands that are here to do good and storytelling is absolutely the way to do that

Tom: yeah and like some of the biggest businesses today because they have so much money they can invest so heavily into their storytelling so they come across really good like even like companies like I mean I don't want to throw shade on them too much but I've got to admit like companies like Coca-Cola like realistically they work with like the ocean cleanup cuz we're looking at the ocean clean up at the minute because we think they'd be like an amazing company but then it's also like Coca-Cola as much as sustainable good they probably do do it's still like a drink which really isn't isn't there's no need

Molly: It’s not really benefiting anyone, I say that but I’ve got diet coke on the floor

Tom: I noticed that I started talking about Coca-Cola I looked down

Molly: I got it from the cafe when I came on of had three matches today so to knowing you're like I don't need any more hot drink fuel I mean I know match isn't like terrible for you but I am feeling pretty you know woo but um yeah so I don't know what I hope a diet coke will do to me but you know they're probably working in the ocean realm because they they have to they have to do something it's not out of a desire it's not like surface against sewage is it and it's like literally their whole reason for existence is to keep the ocean clean you you know it's out of a you know an obligation rather than a desire and I think that's the difference isn't it but yeah companies that have got like literally unlimited marketing budgets you know yeah they're always going to exist I think like in the sort of energy sort of drink realm a really good example is Ten Tenzing am I saying that right Tenzing

Tom: my friend right he um we won a night out a few months ago and as I was saying in a minute ago actually I don't drink anymore and he was like right mate um I want to get you a drink I'm going to get you a Tenzing like you're going to absolutely love it he was banging on about this Tenzing so walk around Sainsburys local we couldn't find one it was good but um but yeah have still yet to try it

Molly: oh my gosh no honestly they're so good but they've like completely revolutionized the energy drink space so I'm I'm sure I'm sure I might be wrong oh I don't know if my memory is failing me but I feel like the founder he did used to work Red Bull okay I think I think don't like you know someone fact check me on that um but like they've completely disrupted that as an industry and there's like there's nothing rubbish in it at all like it's all like plant Botanical sort of n natural high that you get from it as opposed to some of the others that are literally just filled with god knows what but that's an example of a brand that is still it's a really small brand they're like a lean team but with the right storytelling and the right messaging and the right angle they've been able to go in and literally like cause havoc in this industry and I love that I love it um just check them out if you don't check the found out on LinkedIn he's cool

Tom: yeah I will do that sounds really interesting

Molly: really cool

Tom: so talking about like weaking Havoc havoc in an industry how do you think like a a smaller company is may be starting up but they want to enter like a market and they want to get across their message that they're doing good things how how do they go about doing that

Molly: I think and I'll come back to something that I said earlier it's about the energy and intention behind it if a brand is going in thinking I want to tear shit up you know if that's the intention that is the wrong thing to go in with I think the whole like causing havoc and like really sort of disrupting an industry that should be a byproduct of you doing something well and doing something for the right reasons so I think that's where that whole purpose thing the purpose the mission vision and the values that sort of brand truth element really comes into play because I think we think with things like that like oh what's your purpose statement what's your mission statement it's just stuff that is on a sheet of paper that you kind of look at and you know if you've got an office you might have it on the wall and it might look cool and that that'll probably be the end of it for a lot of companies but that that sort of collection of things should be the things that your brand lives and dies by if your value vales aren't literally the thing that drives every business decision that they're literally pointless you know and if you've got values like where family run business like I love family run businesses no shaded to family run businesses but people don't really care about things like that people don't care they care about what you're going to do for them and that's why sort of that sort of core foundational piece and I love working with brands on that because they might have a mission statement that was written 15 years ago by the founder in his bedroom when he started it and now the business is very very different and  that like collection of things is so so important in shaping how you put your brand out there in the world and the stories that you tell and the sort of words that you use and the things that you stand for as well like you know obviously in an Ideal World we'd all do everything perfectly all of the time and Brands would as well but that isn't realistic it's about taking action that has the most meaningful impact and means a lot to your values and your brand values as well so like the the ocean cleanup stuff for example you know that might be like a real big area of passion and that might be where like sort of the charity days are focused the volunteer hours and you know if you're doing like 1% for the planet or something like that that might be like the area of focus but it it'd be very difficult to I think I think Brand's probably a bit endanger of spreading themselves too thinly to tick boxes and it goes back to that intention it's like okay you want to disrupt do you want to disrupt or do you want to make the world a better place do you want to like perhaps you've chosen three sdgs um and that they're what you want to focus on but it's like trying to focus on there's a 17 of them it's like trying to focus on all 17 and it's like you'll kill yourself and your entire team before you do any good in the world if you try and do that

Tom: yeah that's such an interesting point I sort of thinking this a little bit earlier like at the minute our company is sort of focusing on our strategy as a whole we're thinking about there's like four pillars so we have like team well-being team Niche team good things and team diversity equity and inclusion and the team good things is mostly focused on okay how can we either have a positive impact on the environment or have a positive impact on local community Charities that kind of thing so we have all these meetings and we're we've got some good ideas and we're kind of working on quite a few things already like we've got things in progress um and then it's like B-Corp up and it's like that's kind of on the side at the moment and we are going to come back to that and do it but then it's kind of weird because in a sense it's a bit of a trade-off of time because we are quite a small agency it's like what do you do like do you focus on actually doing the things that's genuinely going to impact the charity right now or the environment or do you go and try and prove that you're doing stuff that's going to impact the world so

Molly: that's the thing isn't it and I think like actually taking action and like getting done sorry I said knob once and that it's all gone to pot um you wouldn't think I did words would you um but actually getting stuff done that's going to have a real impact that is far more valuable than sort of a piece of paper that like says we're a good business like it's it is about doing the things that matter isn't it and doing the things that matter to you as a brand because again people see that people feel that and having that sort of it's like social proof isn't it like look at them doing exactly what they say do like exactly acting you know walking the walk as well as talking the talk

Tom: yeah absolutely how do you think like a brand goes about kind of unlocking those values and like connecting with them

Molly: um I think you have to get really really honest and I think I think having an outside perspective is really really good so whether it is with someone who does sort of brand truth brand strategy you know whatever you want to call it or may as a marketing agency or whatever that entity is having that outside opinion and outside voice to question it I think is absolutely key because said earlier we're so self-centred aren't we and like you might think that your values are like rock solid but until somebody says what does that actually mean like you might know what it means and you know we've got a client who I've worked with previously and we're exploring a bit more work together now and he the founder was like can you have a look at like the values and like what we stand for and like the mission statement and so often things are just word soup that it's just like they've thrown some buzzword in there and it's like an amalgamation of maybe like three different people in the business have gone like yeah we stand for that yeah we stand for that yeah we stand for that and it's like what does it mean and like I have a firsthand example of this actually I used to say that Effable works with impact-driven businesses and I was like feel is so slick yes yes and then I was walking I was walking around Trum Gardens and I was like impact driven like an impact driver like the tool I was like what does that actually mean like what does impact-driven mean because okay you're driven by impact that doesn't see whether that impacts good or bad you know and like the same with Purpose Driven really I mean I still use that phrase now but you know or like passionate it's like you could be passionate about destroying the world like it's like what does that mean so I think really breaking down the meanings of words and you might come to a point where you're like okay impact driven that does sit well with me but for me I was like an impact driver like I'm all about energy I'm all about the good stuff I'm all about flow and ease and tapping into things like the physical things in the body impact doesn't feel like a nice word for me to use but I think until we start questioning like what do these words mean what is the intention behind these words it's really easy just to slap three together stick them on the wall and carry on with your day and never think about them ever again or until you get to like your you know end of year and you're like looking back and you're like what were them values you know there's going to be a lot of brands out there that do that and it's like let's break it down down work out what we mean by it and what the intention is and okay do they still fit if they do great yes let's go if not maybe we we rethink

Tom: yeah do you think you could like go and look at somebody's like mission statement like let's say I'm like an agency and I'm like okay I want to get a bit better with words here could I just go and look at my own mission statement and start like analyzing it in some detail and like in depth and go okay actually what what does that mean and start questioning my own mission statement or is there like a better way to start off approaching this

Molly: definitely definitely definitely and I think like the more we can question things the better um I would say if you have got a mission statement and you're thinking could it be better have a little look over it but then genuinely the best best thing you can do get away from your desk get away from a computer turn your phone off go for a little walk in nature and have a long hard think and see what comes to you I think if you're sitting down with the intention of like God I really need to sort this out again what what feeling is there in the body there you might be feeling a bit rushed like oh God I just need sort it reluctant and again what energy is going to be poured into that thing that should be your mission statement it should be like you know a shining little light coming out of your Brand's head if it had a head you know like oh here I am so it's like is it something that you want to like have your head in your hands over at your desk or is it something that you want to allow a bit of spaciousness for you know I know it's an absolute luxury it is it shouldn't be but you know it can be a luxury to you know take the day and like go and have a wonder or like so I when I when I first started working with Brands whatever project we're working on I I work out which element feels most connected to so are they Earth are they air are they fire are they water or are they ether are they the you know the overarching sort of feeling and I think like again if this feels woo it feels woo for you you know but working out where you feel most connected you know do you like being in the forest do you like being by the Sea do you like you know what where do you feel most at home in nature like as either if you're the marketing manager if you're the brand manager if you're the founder whoever you are go and spend time there and seek inspiration for that mission outside of the usual places

Tom: yeah cuz it's a bit like the answer already exists somewhere it's just like

Molly: yes absolutely absolutely yes the answer is there somewhere it's just unpicking it and drawing it back to that brand and I think it's so so tempting isn't it to like you know when you thinking about mission statements like oh let's go see what Patagonia is because they're like the OG of mission statements but it can just make it more confusing and I think when we're seeking inspiration for things like that A always if you absolutely must look at other brands

outside your own industry always like never like if you're like say a marketing agency don't go and look at other the marketing agencies because it it literally confuses you more than anything but honestly I get most inspired when I am in nature at an art gallery reading like oh my gosh reading brings me so much joy and like I don't read business books I read novels and nice things and things that you know make me feel inspired so yeah like get off your phones

Tom: I love it

Molly: easier said than done

Tom: yeah it is it is in that last episode actually I was talking about me getting on my phone too much um but yeah anyway so final question then um as the name of podcast the podcast is make things better we do ask this question every podcast what do you think people can do to make things is make this better,  better and you can interpret this however you like

Molly: okay what do I think people could do to make things better I could say a hundred things for this but I'm going to say spend more time in and with nature I think when we do don't connect with you know Mother Earth Mother Nature passion Mama whatever you want to call that thing her when we're not spending time in nature we become so disconnected from the impact that we're having on the planet the you know the things that we're doing and we're never going to be perfect you know I'm not sitting here saying that any of us are but I think the longer we spend away the the bigger that Gap Becomes of knowing that actually it is a constant source of inspiration it is something that needs support and help and it's also our greatest resource like what an absolute joy to live on such a gorgeous Planet obviously there's horrendous things happening but in terms of nature how beautiful and what an absolute honor so if you do want to make things better I think connecting with nature and finding out what that means for you you know it might be that you know you've got a balcony and you can start growing some herbs that might be your connection like particularly if you live in a city I'm really lucky that you know I'm I'm in Stoke and like there's lots of like green space available but you know it might be that you know you absolutely love Cold Water swimming and you go and find like a like a puddle but you know some water that you can get in and sort of experience that you know there's a million and one different ways of experiencing nature and it's free as well it's free to access free to enjoy and I think yeah I think just spending more

Tom: I just want to go out for like a walk now like in the countryside

Molly: me too me too but yeah

Tom: amazing okay and where can people find you

Molly: yeah so I'm Molly Gould on LinkedIn you'll know it's me my headline says typing dot dot dot which catches a lot of people out which absolutely love I'll never changed that

Tom: confused me I'm sure you had that on slack as well

Molly: yeah I have I've got it on any messaging

Tom: I was like when is she going to reply  I'm so intrigued I'm waiting like 10 hours

Molly: What is this essay um my website is itiseffable.com and on Instagram it is effable as well

Tom: perfect go and check out Molly and thank you so much for coming on the podcast

Molly: thank you for having me I've loved this so much

Tom: me too me too all right and thanks for listening or watching you can you can find hiveit at www.hiveit.co.uk. and I hope you have an amazing rest of your day.